Posts by Band on the Run

88

Question of the Day: Why are so very few of Jesus ACTUAL WORDS...

by Terry in

jw
friends

why are so very few of jesus actual words recorded exactly?.

the new testament is almost entirely written in greek.. jesus spoke aramaic.

maybe a bit of what was called "market greek".

Band on the Run

There is absolutely no proof that Jesus' exact words were lost. We discussed this in our Lenten form last night comparing Scripture vs. Christian legend. Scripture was determined by a bunch of men. God was not in the process. We approach this from a Western time frame, that things can be recorded with veracity, that first thing happened, then another thing happened. Jesus was not raised in the Roman tradition but Eastern. Truth is not confined to written words. Authors who claim apostolic authority were not purposefully lying. Anthrolpogists have studied oral traditions around the globe. These people knew how essential it was to remember every little detail. A range of cultures have legends that have been intact with no change in details for many centuries.

I'd be comfortable if the New York Times and Wall St. Journal documented Jesus' ministry. As a Western trained student, I was told to diminsh oral traditions. It is cultrual imperialism.

People knew what Jesus said, what he did, what others said and did. Why bother to repeat it? Better to tackle fresh problems. John writes pure theology b/c theology became a concern. It was not a concern for Mark, etc. I've always believed that the Gospel requires faith. As Paul wrote, it is folly. Strange belief. I don't know for a fact if Jesus exact words were used but it is a very unimportant point to me. The cross is the central message. What does it all matter without faith in the cross?

42

what kind of degree do you have?

by deservingone26 in

jw
friends

ive been going thru a lot of the different posts on here and seeing that most here believe that higher education is very important.

i agree that it is important and i plan on going back to school in the fall but im just wondering who all here has a degree and in what?

just curious .

Band on the Run

I have a BA from Columbia and JD from NYU. Presently, I'm taking an intro to office course. It is harder than accounting, philosophies, conflicts in law school. Much harder than law school for me. Part of my problem is that I lack familiarity with spread sheets. I fear that I won't have a chance to hone what I am learning.

Education was a given for me. The WTBTS be damn. Others had people hanging all over time for attending a prestigious school. My grandmother made fun of the idiot college students. I was at the pinnacle in law. Laughed all the way to the bank. Furthermore, I worked in a large corporate firm in the Wall St. area. The library had immense windows looking down on Bethel in Brooklyn. It was sublime. I'd sit with my paycheck and cup of coffee and enjoy the view.

As a New Yorker, I am glad they are leaving Brooklyn. They never fit in. Good riddance.

69

First time ever - I attended my first Catholic Mass tonight...

by ziddina in

it was very interesting.... of course, the first thing i noticed was the building.

very different from a "kingdom hall" - this catholic church is in an extremely modern, six-sided building.

as one enters the building, their "holy water" font - fountain(???

Band on the Run

tAnd a Catholic service yet. You get extra points from either God or Satan.

I could not make the leap to Catholicism. The very few things I believe the Witnesses are right about negate Catholicism. I do see it as a manifestation of continuity of the Church. I became Episcoplian because the subway was out at Columbia so I had to walk downtown. For some reason, I walked past a church I never noticed before. There was a sign up that Geraldo Rivera and Cesar Chavez, the migrant worker leader, were preaching the sermon on Sunday. I drove in from NJ. It was the Episcopal Cathedral in NY, off the beaten path in NY. The majesty of the architecture, the happy faces, the intellectually rigorous sermons, the ecumenical approach all made me feel as though I was in heaven. It is High Church, Anglo-Catholic, which is very dominant in NY. Oh, the glory of the incense and ritual going back thousands of years.

I was so used to treprimanded in the Witnesses that it took me years to get to baptism and confirmation. The Exchange of Peace was awkward and it was just being introduced. I obsessed about how to hold my hands properly during communion. It never occurred to me that I could ask someone. I kept buying catechisms and history books. It is a lot of English history to know. I was terrified of demons. My confirmation teacher told me to read C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters, letters from a senior demon to his nephew in the field. It changed my life.

Isn't it a shame what the Witnesses give up? Aesthetics aside, being a Witness I never felt affirmation. It is available elsewhere. The Anglican communion is very split now because of the ordination of homosexuals. You can voice your opinions freely. Try voicing any criticism of the Witnesses.

h

36

Were you SPANKED?

by unshackled in

jw
friends

don't get all excited...i don't mean lastnight.

spankings were a regular occurence in my family, and don't think that was uncommon for born-in jws.

my parents loved the line "we spank you because we love you.

Band on the Run

ry.No, I wish I were spanked. My father beat the living dayllights out of me until I was a pulp. Something we could never quite discuss with the higher ups. He read spare the rod.......ad nauseum. Recently, a man posted on wikipedia with the same venom about his authority and how venal children are. Do you remember Joel Steinberg the father who murdered his adopted little girl, Lisa. All of NY was riveted to TV during his trial. My father's body language was present. My JW aunt in MAss watched and needed medical treatment - the postures, attitudes, the physicalities, were extraordinary. I am certain the jury noted. It wasn't normal behavior at all.

The WTBTS never said he was wrong or right. The culture fueled the fire. Mentioning Spare the Rod from the OT 1 million times to every mention of Paul to love your children in the NT.

101

How do you feel about the pledge of allegiance now?

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

for you us citizens (and those whose nations have a similar patriotic oath), how do you feel about your children saying the pledge in school if it's customary?.

my daughter is in 3rd grade and part of her school's morning routine includes the pledge.

when we stopped attending meetings a year ago, my wife and i explained to her that we don't agree with the jw "idolatry" classification so, naturally, she started joining her class in the pledge.. fast forward to the present: my wife and i are both non-theists who want to raise ethical, caring, tolerant children, but also children who aren't afraid to stand apart, especially when that stand isn't popular.

Band on the Run

My mom was expelled from high school for flag salute. It led me to see the importance of law in protecting minorities. I used to worship the Court. My profs. always said I was only looking at one snap shot in time. Over time, the Court has been very bad protecting rights. They were right.

We were allowed to salute the flag in elementary school b/c there were no snitches around. It was during the Cold War. We weren't learning skills - only antiRussian propaganda. I knew I would die during the Cuban Missle Crisis. We practiced hiding under our desks, memorized all the civil defense shelters in the neighborhood so we could go there when the bomb came. I wanted to be with my parents when i died. Terrible times, much worse than 9.11. The social pressure to salute would have been extraordinary. Besides, the Witnesses were very clear in non express ways that the uS was the good side.

So I saluted, then I refusedd b/c of the Viet Nam War. I attended an urban ghetto high school so none of the blacks were saluting. My meek classmates were raising their fists in black power salutes. When it started at the Olympics, I was so afraid of the militants. Soon these black mama's boys who would never hurt anyone were raising their fists. The principal asked why I wasn't saluting. I said Jehovah Witness family but I also believed the war should end and anyone to signal that was fair game.

After September 11th, I relished the chance to salute again. I am a New Yorker. My mom and I were together. People were saluting at events that never had flag salute before. Tears welled in my eyes. There was such a sense of strong community, that we were being forged to be ready.

If the US does something foul again, like Viet Nam, I will not salute again. My mom was deeply traumatized by the flag salute issue. It did not seem a principled reason to be a low paid flunkey forever. It was not central to Witness belief, just the way blood is not central. It is being yanked by Bethel. The United States fought very hard with the Allies. If the US did not fight the Axis, would Bethel allow Hitler to confiscate the main assets and send people like me to concentration camps. I was raised with neutrality but the acknowledgement that we were American JWS and we were very lucky.

164

looky looky - A 'real' J-dub forum! (are they becoming normal???)

by Reality79 in

jw
friends

so did the 'da society' give these dub internet savvies permission to start a forum?

because last i checked, the ole boys in their oversized brooklyn bunker didn't want their members on the internet unless it was to view their own official websites.

i thought maybe it was an apostate forum until i read their long winded, typically condescending jdub style membership guidelines:.

Band on the Run

.The Society will shut it down. They can market their own game to get money.

The dramatic exclusion process is a testament to the power of apostate sites and witnesses (small w). People who speak truth and believe they speak truth, are assured. They are ceding the logical and educational game to apostates. It truly is an extraordinary testament to efforts here and elsewhere.

Someone should make all the info public.

164

looky looky - A 'real' J-dub forum! (are they becoming normal???)

by Reality79 in

jw
friends

so did the 'da society' give these dub internet savvies permission to start a forum?

because last i checked, the ole boys in their oversized brooklyn bunker didn't want their members on the internet unless it was to view their own official websites.

i thought maybe it was an apostate forum until i read their long winded, typically condescending jdub style membership guidelines:.

Band on the Run

Nowhere do they say who they actually are and what happens to the proceeds! I am a lawyer. If I were representing the society, I'd would like the tie to key words such as "publisher" and New World Translation. As if door to door is not enough, now we have to play it. Oh, what fun. Maybe the Society will get a court injunction or recover proceeds.

Someone did not see a lawyer when they made a business plan. How long has this been out?

52

what was the worst meeting you ever attended ?

by man in black in

here's mine :.

back in the early 90's we went to the sunday talk and wt study.. lo and behold, a friend from the 70's who was df'ed ( he had just been reinstated) was there along with his parents.

i had no idea that they would have been there.. one of my kids was getting sick, so my wife and i were up-down the entire meeting walking him around.

Band on the Run

We were about the only whites in the congregation. Our overseer was white Polish from England. He had two daughters around my age, Ann and Carol. One night he announced to loud applause that they were leaving school at fourteen to pioneer. I think they were home schooled. In my fantasies, Ann and Carol would be my friends. Later, they stood up and gave testimony about how bad the orange book was for children. It was too simplistic. Rather,one should study some adult book. Rapturous applause. They were married and pregnant in a year.

They lived in the same rental as my aunt and uncle. He would preach and preach. Later, he was a Remant member but he was way too young. They seethed that he was assigned a black congregation. Racist to the core. If Jesus were manifest in you, you would not be racist.

So I stayed in school and graduated to no applause. My parents weren't all bad. The flag salute meant my mom was expelled at fourteen. She was deeply wounded. She had no choice but to suffer. My gm would never stand up to authority. Yet my mom was prepped for slaughter by the Gestapo. The actually role played what to say to the Nazis.

89

the other side of my story and why im going back

by deservingone26 in

jw
friends

there are two parts to this topic you can read one or the other or both if you want, i just figured i post this for differents ones who might being going thru what i am going thru i tried to write this as quick as possible so everything i am posting here is not to offend anyone i know everyone has the own opinions on different things so you can disagree or agree, but this is where i stand.

sorry for any spelling errors or grammar issues up front.

my story .

Band on the Run

ed Why post here? Do you honestly think you are going to convince anyone to rejoin a dangerous (very dangerous) cult that they manage d to escape with God's help? Are we to puch Jesus in the stomach and return to an org that has the audacity to call itself Christian while denying the very essence of Christianity? This is a free country. People have the right to be very foolish and pay for mistakes for the rest of their lives.

So you are a little people-pleaser. If you were five, your choice of your family would make more sense.

I left the Witnesses at thirteen. The brothers could not read so they did not teach what was in the Watchtower. They believed they were. Yet I was grotesque for noticing it b/c I am female and thus tainted. God should have created me to be retarded. He really slipped. I saw love outside the Society, never any in it. Never, not once and my family has been active since Russell. My father and uncles served at Bethel. The cardinal rule growing up was to never became friendly with the amoral Bethelites, It wasn't' only my parents. Everyone with strong ties shared the view. So four decades have passed.

I became very ill. Jesus was present with me but he did not stop the illness for a very long time. The Anglican Cathedral in NY and a society church saved my life. A very famous author spent many hours tallking with me about the spiritual implications of illlness. As I was near death, I volunteered in homeless ministries. I welcomed tour buses. I am well educated. Dietrich Bonhoffer, Thomas Merton, Paul Tillich and Karl Barth are all familiar to me. Words are interesting but actions of love ring the truest. Early Christians received their first press notices when they stayed despite death during plagues. The world had never seen such love before. Witnesses won't even help their own kind. Do the Witnesses cherish member's understanding of scriptures or their dedication to knocking on doors? I knew nice Witnesses but they were all ineffectual. Jesus said what you do for the least of me, you do for me. Nowhere in Gospels, canonical or othserwise or Christian legends does Jesus mention 1914 and knocking on doors. He assumes his audience knows the scriptures. Solitary study of gospels by consecutive verse should be encouraged, not punished.

Where in Scripture or legend is the WTBTS mentioned? If what they teach is true, Jesus would have foreknowledge. He would say to the crowds study the June 6, 2o14 Watchtower, paragraph 8, very carefully. Jesus constantly referred to scripture and Jewish custom. Why did he not say well, the scriptures are fulfilled by this uncooll group in Brooklyn, formed in Pittsburgh so don't bother knowing the Torah. You have no principled reasons for returning. Only weasal stories. Assuming that you are real person.......

22

College

by d in

jw
friends

i am a college trying to maintain good grades.college is stressful especially this year.have any of you who are still in college, or went to college found it to be difficult in any way shape or form?.for me i am worried about finding a good career after i graduate.since the job market is still slow.. thanks.

d.

Band on the Run

If you are struggling, don't keep complaining here. First, speak to your prof. during office hours and explain that college is important to you but you need help and does the prof have suggestions. Second, most schools have formal tutoring programs. It makes sense to go even if you are doing fine b/c you can always use extra help. I graduated law school. Presently, I am taking computer classes. I keep the prof appraised. I've already arranged for tutoring. Third, the library will most likely have other text books available. I did this during bar review. Depending on the topic, one author will explain it better than another. It was an invaluable aid.

T. here are prob. Twelve Step groups on campus. I'd go even if I hAD no addiction. The supportive is wonderful.

Hang around with winners. Don't pal around with a chronically negative person. My law school roommate was killing me. I felt I was drowning. Had I stayed friends with her, I would have joined her at the bottom of the class. Profs. refused to give her references. Rather, I was the top 10%.

If you feel blue, go for help to be evaluated for depression. The sooner the better.

Schedule recreation time. I planned out films and ballet. When I worked, I bought books to read.